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 Long Term Athlete Development

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CoachDJR



Posts: 551
Join date: 2010-01-22
Location: Southern NB

PostSubject: Long Term Athlete Development   Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:23 pm

I believe that this site could be a great tool for discussion and promotion of basketball in this province. Canada Basketball has produced a long term athlete development model. It identifies a primary purpose and goal of:

"The mission was described as:
2020 “A World Leader in Basketball”
Leading a unified basketball community to engage all
in quality experiences and drive international success.
The priorities were to:
- Unify the basketball community
- Develop an enduring economic model
- Build a dynamic developmental infrastructure by improving
coaching at all levels by developing a system based on principles,
which encompass participation and excellence. "

For a province of our size we punch well above our weight (population) class in terms of the numbers of high level athletes we have produced over the years. I think that we can do an even better job by becoming a more unified community.

On this site I see a lot of discussion of who is better then who. We've got 10 different threads about top 10's broken down by division, gender, junior/senior varsity. We seem very focused on recognizing as many athletes as possible for what they are achieving currently at levels who are well below the "Training to Win" level. I don't see a lot of discussion over how they are developed or what we could be doing to make them better.

While we have Centre for Performance and provincial programs in this province, the primary training ground for all of our athletes to prepare them for futures in basketball and as life long athletes continues to be high school and community sport. I see BNB making rule changes to support basketball development. These changes directly impact some tactics that coaches and teams have used (that are perfectly legal basketball plays) but are being made unacceptable because winning at those levels is not as important as a unified vision for skill development.

What changes could we be making or promoting at our level to better develop high school athletes? What discussions do we need to have to create a basketball community focused province wide on producing the best athletes we've ever had? How can we make our basketball community about sharing resources and improving the level of basketball, without sacrificing the rivalries and competitive spirit in the games that so many people love? What supports or resources do we need to create a collaborative culture skill development, rather than a community/school based belief on winning or focusing on a few individuals? Do we need to discuss fixing/improving our basketball culture or is the general consensus that it is fine?

FYI: if you are one of the people who think it is fine. Know there is a big disconnect between the skill sets and speed at which they can be executed top level coaches (provincial, national, CCAA/CIS) are expecting and the actual abilities of that a majority of our kids are being trained to perform. How can we get these two expectations closer, what do we need to do to get more co-operation and collaboration coaching, playing and performance wise in this province?
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student



Posts: 137
Join date: 2010-04-08

PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:39 pm

finally a thread worth reading.
1- 2 paid coaches to come into the program to evaluate identify and recruit the players. 1 each for girls and boys, with no political/family/city ties. time to end the favoritism. screw bnb its too political
2- major thrust during the off season from last week of feb til first week of sept
3- get the players out of prov to compete
that's my start, probably more to follow
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AA Fan



Posts: 82
Join date: 2010-02-02

PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:11 pm

I agree that there is way to much talk about who is better players . The problem is that we are comparing players that do not even play the same positions . I beleive as long as we continue with the AA AAA leagues and the mismatches that occur the problem will not end . When moncton high has to play Riverview twice or Nackawic has to play Tobique twice it is hard for everyone involved to try to develope the skill and drive that is needed for the next level . I am not sure what the answer is but we need to find a better way to get teams ranked and playing against more even compitition. You cannot improve unless you are challenged or if you are over matched. Also by being forced to play a home and home in your division you are restricting the teams from finding better match ups. How many games are Riverview forced to play ??? How many games is Picard in AAA or Goodine in AA set or her floor time cut back because of the compitition level . I am using the girls as examples only because that is who I am familiar with but the same thing goes on in the males . Recently I have seen alot of talk about dunking when you are ahead . That is not the players fault that is the systems fault for even having that game !!!
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Slam Dunk



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Join date: 2010-01-19

PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:35 pm

The NBIAA clearly states in their mission statement they are providing a rereational experience for " fun, fairplay, and sportsmanship."
The elite hockey players are not depending on the NBIAA for their development!
Baseball players the same!
Curling!
Golf!
The list goes on, yet when it comes to basketball these high school kids are constantly being belittled for not working on their game, playing year round, and on and on. Maybe the majority of kids are playing for fun and believe their future is based on education, not athletics, and maybe it is the coaches, and not the kids that do not get it.
The NBIAA needs to improve lots of things, "fairplay" being one of them. Should Campobello with a graduation class of 5 be in competition with Sugarloaf with a graduation class of ___?
On the girls side should GM and RNS with graduation classes in the low twenties be in competion with TVHS with a graduation class of ___?
Oh I know you will say these communities need to improve their programs, but personally it is my belief that the more people you have to pick from, the better your program will be.

It is the responsibility of Basket Ball NB. to step up to the plate and develop basketball not the NBIAA. BNB has the reputation of being nothing but a money grab,offering one tournament in the spring and then have their hands out once again in the summer for the kids who are politically chosen to represent our basketball power house.
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CoachDJR



Posts: 551
Join date: 2010-01-22
Location: Southern NB

PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:46 pm

I'll respond to some of the isssue brought up here and see if we can keep some of this conversation going:

1. ON the boys side Campo graduates 8-15 kids a year, and SSHS graduates 80. 2 years ago when Campo made it to the finals against Bathurst, SSHS was in their section at provincials but lost to RNS before getting a chance to play Campo. One year Campo is better, last Year Sugarloaf was and is again this year and it suddenly not fair that they have to play?

GM graduates about 30. No idea what RNS graduates but they can recruit and mandate kids play and practice daily so I've got trouble feeling bad for them. TVHS graduates 40-50. So even in the old 3 tier system they would all be in the same division anyway.

I don't see size as as big an issue as interest and commitment of program. Campo who is arguably the smallest school in the province right now is still a top 10 AA team and would be a lot of weak and average AAA schools.


2. I hear this comment about BNB being political. I can't speak to their meetings and policy making, but I know most of the coaches who have coached provincially the last few years and the coaches who make up selection committees for teams. Political is not a word I would use to describe most of them. I don't think summer teams are near as political as people seem to think. I haven't seen many kids on provincial teams that I could say didn't deserve to be there. I'm willing to be proven wrong if someone has a different opinion and can give my some examples from say the last 6-8 years.

3. I would agree that BNB has to do more, and the NBIAA has an obligation to sport as a whole not elite basketball development. BUT: When you espouse fair play and fun for everyone though, and then make the FINAL 12/FInal 8 your showcase event of the year you're really encouraging elite level play too. The rest of the sports in my mind were community or regional sports that came to schools, while basketball has a tradition of being a school sport. I don't think High school Basketball and Elite club basketball on large scale can co-exist in this province.

4. I like the idea of paid coaches travelling and evaluating and improving coaching. How receptive would people be? If people already think it a cash grab how does adding more paid positions help?
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baller24



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Join date: 2010-11-19

PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:31 pm

Our boys and girls will have a hard time developing into elite basketball players just by playing high school. The NBIAA has too many restrictions, # of games, length of seasons.

There is not much on the recreation side of things when you have a scoreboard. It is great that lots of kids get to play some sports but in the end we are still keeping score.
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Coachmac



Posts: 238
Join date: 2009-11-24
Location: Moncton, NB

PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:59 am

I think everyone missed the point of the original post, and judging by the comments I don't believe you read the plan put out by Basketball Canada. It is VERY good.
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20yearcoach



Posts: 61
Join date: 2010-01-18

PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:59 am

CoachDJR wrote:
I'll respond to some of the isssue brought up here and see if we can keep some of this conversation going:

1. ON the boys side Campo graduates 8-15 kids a year, and SSHS graduates 80. 2 years ago when Campo made it to the finals against Bathurst, SSHS was in their section at provincials but lost to RNS before getting a chance to play Campo. One year Campo is better, last Year Sugarloaf was and is again this year and it suddenly not fair that they have to play?

GM graduates about 30. No idea what RNS graduates but they can recruit and mandate kids play and practice daily so I've got trouble feeling bad for them. TVHS graduates 40-50. So even in the old 3 tier system they would all be in the same division anyway.

GM graduates 30 a year?? RNS has a graduating class of between 40-60/year - have you seen who they recruit???It sure as hell is not basketball players - hockey, hockey, hockey - they do mandate sports but what is wrong with that - i feel bad when they are three weeks behind other schools b/c they are still playing soccer/field hockey - mandated sports is a good and bad thing.

I don't see size as as big an issue as interest and commitment of program. Campo who is arguably the smallest school in the province right now is still a top 10 AA team and would be a lot of weak and average AAA schools.


2. I hear this comment about BNB being political. I can't speak to their meetings and policy making, but I know most of the coaches who have coached provincially the last few years and the coaches who make up selection committees for teams. Political is not a word I would use to describe most of them. I don't think summer teams are near as political as people seem to think. I haven't seen many kids on provincial teams that I could say didn't deserve to be there. I'm willing to be proven wrong if someone has a different opinion and can give my some examples from say the last 6-8 years.

3. I would agree that BNB has to do more, and the NBIAA has an obligation to sport as a whole not elite basketball development. BUT: When you espouse fair play and fun for everyone though, and then make the FINAL 12/FInal 8 your showcase event of the year you're really encouraging elite level play too. The rest of the sports in my mind were community or regional sports that came to schools, while basketball has a tradition of being a school sport. I don't think High school Basketball and Elite club basketball on large scale can co-exist in this province.

4. I like the idea of paid coaches travelling and evaluating and improving coaching. How receptive would people be? If people already think it a cash grab how does adding more paid positions help?
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CoachDJR



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Join date: 2010-01-22
Location: Southern NB

PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:50 am

For those not familiar with the document in question here is a link:

http://www.basketball.nb.ca/app/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=GJk24%2fB1vk4%3d&tabid=36&mid=985&language=en-US
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Coach to Develop



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Join date: 2010-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:29 pm

Coach DJR I really like some of the statements you've brought forward. The one that I think really needs some discussion is the question of whether Elite club teams and High School basketball can co-exist. After being involved in NB basketball for 10+ years now, I really question whether they can. When everyone is focused on being a High School champion you end up having coaches that implement systems and refine those instead of developing basketball IQ.

Now a couple of points that I would SERIOUSLY like to talk about are:

Selection of Summer teams are political: I've been part of numerous selection committees and I guarantee you that the focus is on selecting the best team. It makes me laugh when I see some members of this forum talk about players from their respective communities being the best players in the province when they haven't even seen any players outside of their respective league. Then throw a fit when that player doesn't get selected to a summer team. If you don't like it, then get involved in coaching and basketball in the province and ask to be part of the committee. All teams are selected by committee and must have the majority of the committee be in agreement before any selection is made.

The other is that BNB is a cash grab. I can tell you that BNB has very little funding to work with. In fact the majority of their funding comes from provincial tournaments that are held after the High School season. When you consider all of the age classes that BNB supports, that requires money. The province provides very little financial support to BNB, especially when you look at other provinces in the country. Given that the current government is trying to cut spending, I don't see that changing anytime soon. That means that BNB either needs strong corporate parnerships, or players end up covering the costs for their involvement. That is what happened last year for players that played on provincial teams. They essentially had to cover the costs associated with being part of the team. A large financial burden for sure. If anyone knows of corporate partners that would like to help fund BNB's programs, I know they would love to hear from them.


Adding paid coaching positions just is not feasible at this time. BNB simply does not have the funds to support that.

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driver59



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PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:27 pm

Its nice to know that im not the only person thinking that something should be done in this province about our Athlete Development with regaurds to our basketball players . first of all ive witnessed many provincal tryouts for summer teams ,and i have seen most of the best players in the province in the last 6 or 7 years, something i have noticed is that the number of players comming out for the tryouts seems to be going down, i have talked to some of these kids and they tell me that they wont waste there time or there money anymore considering they are competing with players that dont even have to show up for tryouts , i have witnessed this myself. also a player needs guidence he or she cant do it all by them selves , coaching in this province has become a big part of the problem (in the southeast anyway) personal agenda should not play a part in the program at all, everyone envolved needs to be there for one reason only ,Athlete Development. i understand that we need our coaches to evolve as well but not at the cost of the players. we have far to many players that never get that chance to train with the really good coaches with and against the better players. it is an accepted belief that you have to play with and against better teams and players to get better yourself, dont just keep telling these kids not to give up and keep trying , give them some options, have some options.
I believe that there are enough players boys and girls , parents, coaches and officals , that if we had some leadership and a good plan we could do much better to getting to where i think we could and should be , we have school gyms that are empty all summer ALL SUMMER who's gyms are they anyway ? the teachers ? the unions? the school boards? no they are our Gyms and they are our kids , we need more parent envolvement , when i go to some highschool basketball games, and ive seen my share around the province, its always the same 5 or 6 faces i see, and when i ask them how is the parent envolvement in your school they laugh and say what envolvement , now im not saying its like that everywhere in the provincesome schools have great particapation from the parents, all im trying to say is its not just anyone thing that needs changed its anumber of things and i greatfull for the chance to tell it how i see it and if you dont agree by all means say so maybe if enough of us say whats on our minds things might start to change. UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
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student



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PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:02 pm

nice post driver. good to see this revived. i guess that when i say hire independant coaches i should give details. lets say we get 2 coaches for the 8 weeks after school season finishes. couple of university coaches that are willing and impartial. when everybody is fresh. players who don't have to come to tryouts. very common i think.
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driver59



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PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:10 pm

yes i think that would work , and if we had basketball going on all summer to , i mean real teams going to real games and or turnaments players could be evaluated in a real game situation also a good way to have coaches get to hone there skills as well as the reffs
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driver59



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PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:13 pm

it would be nice to have someone from NBIAA and BNB wading in on this aswell , tell us what you think what do you need to see this through ? i know that you watch and read Hooplife Forums , lets hear from you
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Coachmac



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Join date: 2009-11-24
Location: Moncton, NB

PostSubject: Re: Long Term Athlete Development   Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:16 pm

driver59 wrote:
it would be nice to have someone from NBIAA and BNB wading in on this aswell , tell us what you think what do you need to see this through ? i know that you watch and read Hooplife Forums , lets hear from you

I doubt NBIAA or BNB has any interest in debating with you on a public forum.
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